Model Import Problem

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yehuna
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Model Import Problem

Post by yehuna » 2006-09-17, 23:22

Hello,

since I found this great free Engine some days before, I become more and more enthusiastic about this, and started to spend my time playing around with the sdk. But I found too, that it is not easy for me to look behind some topics.

So, right now, I am not really sure how to import a model from the "Model/Static Directory". I searched here in the forum, as in the documentation or wiki too, but it seems that I missed to understand the principle behind for now. Fact is, that I find the models in the directory, and I find some of them defined in the fgd-file - and this models I am able to import as entities in CaWe. Do I have to define the other models too there to load them in CaWe?

Another difficulty was to load a Skybox - at least I was able to load them now. :) After solving this problem I found that the wiki/documentation is quite small in describing how to attach sky-boxes or how to import models. So my question is, if maybe do you need me for writing some parts for the doku too? Or ist there the need for a german translation? I would be glad to invest some time for doing this. Please let me know.

I think Ca3DE is a great piece of software.

With greetings,
Joachim
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Carsten
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Post by Carsten » 2006-09-18, 11:49

Hello yehuna / Joachim,

welcome to the Ca3DE forums, and many thanks for pointing out some important problems with the documentation! :up:

About your question about static detail models:
There is no need to modify the fgd file - just place a point entity of type static_detail_model as described at http://www.ca3d-engine.de/wiki/doku.php ... :newentity somewhere into the map, then make sure it is selected, and bring up its "Properties" window (Alt+Return, or via the menu).
In the Properties window, select the "Model file name" property from the list and set its value to the desired model name, e.g. "Models/Static/television.ase". You can use the "..." button near the "Value" field to select the desired model, as it will also help you to get the path right (namely relative to the DeathMatch/ directory).
The model will be loaded as soon as you select another property with the mouse or close the Properties window.

If this was a too short description, please let me know, I'll elaborate then.
You're also right in pointing out that this is currently missing from the documentation.

I'd be very happy if you wrote about this in greater detail in the wiki.
Personally, I would suggest to add a new section "Placing Static Detail Models" at the end of http://www.ca3d-engine.de/wiki/doku.php ... :newentity
(instead of filling in the currently missing "Placing a model" page in the Tutorials section).

About your question about the sky domes:
Thanks to the MatSys, making a sky somewhere just requires to assign the proper material to the desired surface, either immediately when creating the brush, or later with the "Edit Face Properties" tool. You've probably found out so much, too. ;)
Again, the Tutorials section mentions a still missing page "Adding a sky", but as before, I'd suggest to instead write this as a separate section either into the documentation of the NewBrush or EditFaceProps tool -- which however are both still missing, too.


Joachim, I'd be very happy if you'd help out with writing documentation. There is no need for a translation into German [I prefer to keep things international ;) ], but there is a big need for filling-in missing things, as you've already discovered.

Please let me know whenever you need help -- I'm happy to assist, as I'm happy that you like Ca3DE.
Please also see the resources mentioned at http://www.ca3d-engine.de/phpBB2/viewto ... =2017#2017 which I have uploaded to assist with writing the missing documentation.
Best regards,
Carsten
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-09-18, 14:40

Hi yehuna/Joachim,

I would like to point out that you often can find some devs hanging around in the Ca3DE irc channel which is #ca3de @ Quakenet. Feel free to join there and ask whatever questions you have. We will support you as good as we can and help you understanding Ca3DE. Like this, you can get into the engine quick and easy:)
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yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-18, 18:26

Thank you very much for your answers and your support.

@Carsten: Your description how to import a model was very good. I was able to follow your instructions, and everything worked as expected. During the next days, I will try to create some own models with related textures, and import them too.

I too started on writing some text for the missing parts in the docu/wiki, mostly parts which I had difficulties with and became familiar with later. As soon I think it is ok, with your permission, I will send it to you for control. This will be probably also during the next days.

@Thrawn: Thank you for your information. For now I am not very familiar with IRC, but I guess I have to become with in the future. :)

But before I close, I have a new question. I am not sure if I should open a new topic for this.
When I followed Carstens Instructions for importing a model, I found a property called "Model Sequence". I guess this is for animate a model. But how I have to handle this?

For example, I want to make a propeller rotating. Do I have to build several models in different position, and thenm give a special file name sequence? Or do I have to give some kind of translation sequences in "value"? Or I am simply on a totally wrong way?

Greetings,
Joachim
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-09-18, 20:48

I don't guarantee for the content of the following post! :oops:

Not all buttons and functions that you can find in the map editor do work. Why it is like this is a long story.. :P

There are/will be several ways how to rotate a propeller.

1. You animate your model. This is not done by building several models and show them one after another! To animate a model, you create bones and link then with the model and animate the bones. The bones movement is a sequence and then later an amiation.

2. Ca3DE will soon have a scripting system. You can then control enities like models by saving certain commands in a text file. But this is not supported yet.

Carsten?

BTW concerning IRC: If this doesn't work out well for you, I've got ICQ an MSN too ;) Feel free to add me :D
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Carsten
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Post by Carsten » 2006-09-18, 22:27

Yehuna, if you want to, you may edit the Wiki directly, please see http://www.ca3d-engine.de/wiki/doku.php ... nganeditor for details (i.e. you need to join the WikiEditors group). I will then automatically receive an email with the changes whenever you finish editing a page of the wiki, which provides me with more than sufficient review control. ;)

About the model sequence numbers: As Thrawn already mentioned, this is a bit different than you described. For example, a human model may come with a walk, shoot and a jump animation, each of which corresponds to a model sequence number. Then, if you want to have it play the walk animation, you'd set the model sequence number to 0, 1 for the shoot anim, and 2 for the jump. (This doesn't really make sense for a static detail model, of course.)

Thus, Thrawn is right with his description: For making a rotating fan, you currently have to make an animated sequence (by animating the "bones" of the fan model) whose index must be entered as the model sequence number.
Soon however, I'll provide other/better means by map scripting in order to do this, then you will be able to simply place a "mover" entity, assign the fan model to it, and have it rotating by a script. This happens to be the very code I'm working on these days.

Hope that answers the question(?). The best is probably to wait until some time in October, I'll have everything prepared until then so that it will be possible to make proper fans, propellers, doors, lifts etc. with the SDK to be released then.
Best regards,
Carsten
yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-19, 10:03

Again, thanks a lot. For animation of a model, I will wait for the next release of sdk. I think it is the best solution to play around with the new script language. And so I have the time to become more familiar with modelling for CA3DE and making the needed textures.

@Thrawn: I will try to find you in ICQ which I use too, although I mostly stay invisible there. :wink:

@Carsten: I did the request to join the wiki-group a few minutes ago. I hope that I can start editing some pages without major mistakes. Nevertheless, if there will be any, please let me know.
yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-23, 20:07

mmmh, it seems that I ran into the next problem. I can import models now without any problems, but I was not able to see them right shaded after compiling the map. The texture seems to be full brightness at all directions, as if it would be self-luminant. So the model looks really flat in the map.

I tried to make the same models with different programs and different ways, I changed lighting in the map from sunlight to pointlight, but the result is the same. Can someone give me a hint where I make the mistake?

Greetings,
Joachim
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-09-23, 20:28

Did you just compile the map with CaBSP or did you also calculate the map lighting with CaLight?

Seems to me like you didn't calculate light so the whole map is fully bright...
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yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-23, 22:21

I compiled it both with CaBSP and CaLight enabled. And I can see shaded geometry I made with brushes. The Trinity Player Model is well shaded too. Only my model seems not to work with light.
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-09-23, 23:30

Could you please post the content of your model's cmat-file?
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yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-24, 00:01

Of course. Here it comes:

Models/Sky-Cafe/Motor/metall01
{
diffusemap Models/Sky-Cafe/metall01_diff.png

red ambientLightRed
green ambientLightGreen
blue ambientLightBlue
}

The material section of the .ase File is:

*MATERIAL_LIST {
*MATERIAL_COUNT 1
*MATERIAL 0 {
*MATERIAL_NAME "Models/Sky-Cafe/Motor/metall01"
*MATERIAL_CLASS "Multi/Sub-Object"
*MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.5 0.5 0.5
*MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.5 0.5 0.5
*MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.9 0.9 0.9
*MATERIAL_SHINE 0.2
*MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.0
*MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0
*MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0
*NUMSUBMTLS 1
*SUBMATERIAL 0 {
*MATERIAL_NAME "Models/Sky-Cafe/Motor/metall01"
*MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
*MAP_DIFFUSE {
*MAP_NAME "Map #1"
*MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
*MAP_SUBNO 1
*MAP_AMOUNT 1.0
*BITMAP "C:\default0.bmp"
*UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0
*UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0
*UVW_U_TILING 4.0
*UVW_V_TILING 4.0
}
}
}
}
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Kai
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Post by Kai » 2006-09-24, 00:08

Hi Looks like your mat file contains much more info than needed, im not sure what of the ase file spec is needed and what is useless ..ask Carsten for more infos about that.


But your problem may be caused because of this
*MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.5 0.5 0.5
Your RGB Channel for the ambient (world light) is 50% bright so this may be the cause.


Try to delete all (!) infos about materials inside the ase file !
There is no need because ca3d uses its own path for the textures an the model due to the cmat file entry ;)
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Carsten
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Post by Carsten » 2006-09-24, 09:40

Hi all,

well, good news is that Ca3DE ignores (or is supposed to ignore) everything in .ase files that it has no use for, so normally it is not necessary to fix .ase models by hand.
(I remember that we did this before, but not the results, but I think that hand-editing is not necessary any more, maybe except for the material name.)

Also note that I highly recommend not running CaLight without having run CaPVS first.

:idea: Oh, another possible cause for the problem:
Is maybe the origin of the model very close to a wall, or "inside" a wall, or even "outside" the world? E.g. if you have a big model that is partly in the map, and partly on the outside (especially its origin), this might result in full-bright models, too. So please make sure (at least for testing) that in CaWE the yellow bounding box of the model is fully inside the room.

If that still doesn't help, please send me your .cmap file, or post it somewhere, so that I or somebody else can have a look. ;)
Best regards,
Carsten
yehuna
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Post by yehuna » 2006-09-24, 12:46

Hello all

@Carsten

I tested My scene again, being sure that the origin is not in the walls or in a brush. In my original file, my model is partially in a brush, so I make a test file and moved it out so that it is a fully separated object now. And it is definitely inside of the map borders. But nothing changed, the model again rendered fully brightened.

The last step I did was creating a totally black luminance map, with the hope it prevents the models for maybe emitting lights. The result was the same.

Now I packed all desired files which are not part of the SDK (my maps, the .ase-file and the textures) into a zip file. You can download it here. The file contains two map files: The original file, and the one I did the new tests with.

Thanks to all for your patience.
Joachim
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