Techdemo, Step #2 (indoor part)

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Thrawn
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Techdemo, Step #2 (indoor part)

Post by Thrawn » 2005-10-15, 22:12

Levaravel and me spent some time bringing our thoughts onto paper. We plan to model the part to reach a maximum of details. How this has to be done to save performance has to be discussed though.

We planned 3 new features that need to be impletented.
  • Motion blur
  • Advanced bumb mapping (some kind of parallax mapping)
  • Glow effects


The setting is roughly a lab, but to have more freedom, there will be other stuff too. It's located in a mountain on the main isle.

Here is our concept sketch:

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Description:
Room 1: Sound Effects: Doppler-Effect (you walk/crouch in a gigantic tube)
Room 2: Dynamic Lightning with brushes & material comparison - with normalmap/w/tnormalmap etc
Room 3: Dynamic Lightning in combination with an animated md 5 model (monster) casting shadows in the environment and lightning on the model itself
Room 4: A cave chased into the stone of the mountain, ground fog, you have to use a flashlight, demonstrates Parallax Mapping, dynamic lightning and the Doppler effect
Room 5: Demonstrating some materials
Room 6: Reflections - Mirrors & Water puddle on the ground
Room 7: Computer room wtih flickering Dynamic Light, demonstrating dynamic lightning & Glow effect
Room 8: Motion Blur - fast-moving models
Room 9: Weapon range for weapons demonstration
Room 10: Static Detail Models & Demonstration of the LoD system
Room 11: Physics
Room 12: Particles & Sprites

Job assignment:
Carsten - Code&Effects
Levaravel - Map Model, Models, Sprites
Thrawn - Map implentation
Additionall modeller - ?
Skinner - ?
Sound Artist - ?

Comments&Critics are welcome. If you want more detailed descriptions for a room just ask.

We need you to help us creating the techdemo. If you feel like you could contribute something, just drop a note!
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Re: Techdemo, Step #2 (indoor part)

Post by Carsten » 2005-10-16, 11:01

Hi!
Thanks for your great suggestions! :)

Thrawn wrote:We plan to model the part to reach a maximum of details. How this has to be done to save performance has to be discussed though.

The PVS can be a huge performance saver. It works best with long, winded aisles, and with some careful planning, it is probably possible to exploit it in such a manner that only one effect room is in consideration for rendering at any one time.

We planned 3 new features that need to be impletented.
  • Motion blur
  • Advanced bumb mapping (some kind of parallax mapping)
  • Glow effects

While parallax mapping is relatively easy to implement, I'd suggest to concentrate on existing features first, before new ones are added, because it's more than enough work to properly show the existing ones.

The setting is roughly a lab, but to have more freedom, there will be other stuff too. It's located in a mountain on the main isle.

Here is our concept sketch:
[...]


Thanks, it looks good, but I'd recommend to consider employing (importing) a finished map that is altered for our purposes:
The map might have a story theme, and thus more contents than just aisles and rooms. It must also be pretty big in order to exploit PVS properly, and it should be extensible for future effects.

Description:
Room 1:...


Thats a great list, thanks! I think that the rooms might be re-ordered a bit, so that the player is lead in a linear fashion from the bore boring to the more interesting effects (if such order is possible at all).
Best regards,
Carsten
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Post by n321 » 2006-05-26, 22:53

I dont know how far you are on the tech demo but I can map and model very well and would be willing to help. Let me know if you want me to do anything! I have extensive knowlege in modeling for doom 3 like game engines including materials and normal mapping!
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-05-26, 23:10

Hey, thank you for the offer. The brushwork of the map is complete, but we didn't use that concept.

We could use your help though when it comes to static map models or other models like enemies or weapons. We would be pleased if you could show us some reference work so we know better if we can use your help.

Thanks :)
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Post by n321 » 2006-05-26, 23:35

Ok...well on the spot I have a high poly model that I made for a cg calss at school. It would be great for a normal map...have not made the lowpoly yet because I'm still working on my nomal map creation techniques! :D I am almost finished with a low poly version though! I also have an m16 and a few weapons of lesser quality. (m16 is the same quality as the SCAR...other weapons are low poly md5 models ready to go!)

I have much skill in modeling for videos (my major is motion picture) so I can do great detailed high poly models. I have also done some low poly stuff for an old game project (md5 format) As far as static models go...just send me a sketch and a poly count and ill go to work! I can do almost anything as far as modeling goes!

I can also make any textures needed (diffuse, normal, and spec) I can make cg videos in max, and UI textures. My animations skills for games is not great though, I am still learning! :D

here is my SCAR and Ill try to come up with some other pics! :D

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Post by n321 » 2006-05-26, 23:43

with the help of a friend we came up with a cool explosion effect for the old engine i used using a heat haze kinda like fear! You can see my effect, some of my textures in the background, and my custom 7up machine!! :twisted:

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Post by Carsten » 2006-05-27, 13:00

n321 wrote:I dont know how far you are on the tech demo but I can map and model very well and would be willing to help. Let me know if you want me to do anything! I have extensive knowlege in modeling for doom 3 like game engines including materials and normal mapping!


Hi n321,
thank you very much, your help would much be appreciated!

Here is a list of issues that come into mind about which additional work is needed (no particular order):
  • Textures / Materials (diffuse-, normal- + specular-maps). The indoor part of the TechDemo map must be completely re-textured. Kai is the expert for this (and many other topics ;) ), but maybe he wants to share the big workload etc. Re-texturing is a very crucial issue for the TechDemo overall, so if you're interested, please talk to Kai (and/or post in the TD Dev forum).
  • Models. Also very important, we need models both for the outdoor (island) part of the TechDemo as well as for the indoor (technical underground lab) parts. While work has been spent on outdoor vegetation, we'd certainly need more models for doors, machines, lifts, decoration, debris etc. for the indoor part. Kai and Thrawn have pretty much experience with the details of model making, so they're the contact persons for the artwork and workflow aspects, I am for the technical aspects of model making.
  • As Thrawn said, the brushes of the map are quite good already, and I don't think that they really need a lot of additional creative work. That's still possible though, so if you have a few ideas about it, just speak. ;)
    However, entities must still be placed throughout the map.
  • As soon as I've made a little more progress, we might need some artwork for the GUI system... I'll let you all know as soon as something comes up here.
  • Most other issues involve coding, so they're in my realm. (Or did I forget to mention something?)
So maybe you should just pick something that you like most, and let us know, so that we can get you started. :)
Best regards,
Carsten
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-05-27, 14:07

Your reference work looks very decent. If you succeed in creating low poly versions of the models, I'm sure that you can be a big help for us.

We'll contact you within the next few days giving you further information and present you our techdemo approach. You can then decide if you want to help us and how.
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Post by n321 » 2006-05-27, 23:40

I can most likely help the best with models. BUT my texturing abilities are decent. I would like to join the developers user group, I have been talking with Carsten about licencing and he has invited me to join.

Out of curiosity, what model format do you want static map models in...I am guessing lwo, or ase? Doom 3 uses lwo so I am used to this, I usualy make my models in 3ds max and maybe touch up in lightwave. I assume that animated models are going to be md5 right?

I am working on learning ca3de and getting mysel comfortable. I am trying to figure out ca3de's ability to use gl shaders as decribed in the features section. I am guessing that shader effects like heatHaze is described in a material like Doom 3? I think I am getting close...I just have a few errors to figure out. :) I assume its like doom 3's programable shaders, I cant just go and read the source code though so its a bit harder to figure out how it all works in this engine...but I'll get it!

I look forward to learning to use ca3de better, and helping in its development! I also look forward to lending a hand in your projects (the techdemo for now :) ) and using ca3de in my own projects! My first personal goal with ca3de will be adding a menu system ( just a simple main menu with a few submenus and a save/load game feature) and looking into SP aspects of the game play code. (I have not seen that ca3de has SP features yet...corect me if I am wrong) I have no intentions on using ca3de for commercial use as of now, (my skills are not that good yet) so any thing that I do add to the engine I will happily give to Carsten.

What I will need if I am to help is jsut a detailed decription if the items you want made. Maybe some concept art of the model and a decription of it including the desired max poly count. I may already have some useable art I can contribute too, but I cant give all of it because I dont want some of it distributed on the net. :) BUT I can make whatever you need. I also have alot of skill in Animated videos for things like logos and cutsceens...I am a film major after all! :)

Let me know!

EDIT: I have just found the wiki :oops: And have instantly fixed my shader problems! It looks much like doom 3! I am very excited about the detailed wiki! This will give me a great learning curve! :D
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Post by Thrawn » 2006-05-28, 00:26

It is always great to see a new face that is so dedicated to work with Ca3DE. We will do or best to support you!

If you have ICQ, it would be cool if you could add me, my number is 174587956. MSN is stormtrooper@planetcod.com, you can also reach us at IRC under #ca3de @ quakenet .

Concerninng the model formats:

Actually, we use .ase models for static models and .md5 models for animated models :)

If you want to know anything, don't hestitate to ask, our communtiy might be small but we are very engaged ;)
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Post by Sindwiller » 2006-05-28, 09:33

Cool shots n321! (omg, were i so long away :shock: )

However, how is it going with the implementation? *leech* I cannot wait for Per-Poly Collision Detection, Ragdoll and Physic-Objects.

Wfr, Sindwiller
Im Working on:
- Some Linux Bash-Scripts for installing stuff. Dont ask further questions, because i can't explain that more simple ^^
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Post by Carsten » 2006-05-28, 10:08

n321 wrote:I would like to join the developers user group, I have been talking with Carsten about licencing and he has invited me to join.

Yep, start here for the join process: http://www.ca3d-engine.de/phpBB2/groupcp.php (Joining is a moderated feature...)

Out of curiosity, what model format do you want static map models in...I am guessing lwo, or ase? Doom 3 uses lwo so I am used to this, I usualy make my models in 3ds max and maybe touch up in lightwave. I assume that animated models are going to be md5 right?

Yes. md5 is the preferred choice for both animated and static models, but ase is fine, too. The only downside of using md5 for static meshes is that it inherently smoothes the normal-vectors, so you may want to prefer ase format in most cases. I also hope to be able to integrate 3ds, obj, dea, etc. formats soon.

I am guessing that shader effects like heatHaze is described in a material like Doom 3?

Principally that's right, but specifically for heatHaze, that's a feature that is not yet supported (many other shader effects are).

My first personal goal with ca3de will be adding a menu system ( just a simple main menu with a few submenus and a save/load game feature) and looking into SP aspects of the game play code. (I have not seen that ca3de has SP features yet...corect me if I am wrong)

About the menu system: I'm currently working on it. The work is progressing very fast these days, and the related code changes frequently and significantly. So I'd just like to ask you to wait just a little longer until I've finished this new and very important module of Ca3DE code. It will definitively help you with making custom menus, and work in a spirit very similar to that of Doom 3.

Single player aspects of game code are mostly a matter of point-of-view, less a technical matter. Also, most of it is done with the MOD source code anyway, so you can just modify the DM source code for your purposes.

Loading/Saving games with Ca3DE is not yet implemented, but it's on my TODO list.

What I will need if I am to help is jsut a detailed decription if the items you want made. Maybe some concept art of the model and a decription of it including the desired max poly count.

Mhhh. This question is not so easy to answer.

First, the polygon count should roughly be similar to what we see in Doom3, Quake4, etc.

I currently have no concept art, but the "theme" of the indoor facility is that of a modern, secret laboratory that has been abandoned by personel for unknown reasons ("after catastrophe"). (The reason is to be investigated by the player during the course of the TechDemo.)

The outdoor part, where the TechDemo / the player starts, is a tropical island, with everything being hot and humid, very similar to the islands seen in games like FarCry, Battlefield2 etc.

You may have a look at the screenshots in http://carsten.ca3de-community.de/td_de ... ots_qx.zip which show our indoor level as it appears in its original form in Doom3. Our level should be similar in spirit, but not quite so dark (Lightmapping will account for that). (Once you're member of the TD Dev Team, you'll also find this link mentioned in one of the sticky posts.)

Others here may provide you with some reference shots for the island and/or concept art. For example, we might need some small boat (or helicopter?) with which the player arrived at the island, some wooden bridges or wooden, half rotted jetties, etc.

I think that I should also write down an "official" introduction to the TechDemo from the players point of view soon...
I'm also aware that the above is only a very brief and incomplete description -- just ask if you need more details.
Best regards,
Carsten
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Post by Carsten » 2006-05-28, 10:19

Sindwiller wrote:I cannot wait for Per-Poly Collision Detection, Ragdoll and Physic-Objects.

Hi Sindwiller!
Currently, the new GUI system has precedence.
On weekends, I usually try to do things different from the main course of work, and so today I'm looking into supporting more model file formats like 3ds, obj (Maya), Collada, DeleD, etc.
Physics is mostly a MOD DLL issue anyway - the engine is barely concerned with it, and so it would certainly be great if another programmer looked into integrating one of the big physics frameworks (Havok, Ageia Physix, ODE, ...). This too is on my TODO list, but I can only complete one feature after the other.
Best regards,
Carsten
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Post by n321 » 2006-05-28, 21:29

About the menu system, I will wait then! :) If it is ok I would like to start on a basic save load system tho! AND SP aspects. (I will just add to the mod code! )

As far a my part in the techdemo...I will wait until I get a for sure thing to do...like someone says "hey n321 start on a boat "...then I'll start!

About the user group! when I go to your link and select tech demo dev team It says it is a closed group and I have no way to join!

DLing your D3 screens now...I am anxious to see what it is going to look like :)
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Post by n321 » 2006-05-28, 21:40

Ok just got the D3 techdemo map shots and they are great! Whoever is doing the brushwork on this is amazing! I love it....It looked better then D3's maps! And were those custom weapons! They were great too!

Will your gui system be ingame like D3 as well!? I hope the PPL will be the same too...bright is ok but I like the dark look...I hope it wont be as light as the old ca3de demo!

Well if everyone is interested in physics and ca3de's physics are in the mod code I can work on that a bit...quick question tho...How many FPS are you getting in ca3de with ppl and D3 sized maps? because ODE has a speed requirement! if it is 20 or lower we may have to use newton! Let me know if there is a preference...I have put ode into xreal (the old engine i used) and I did not like it as much as I thought i would have!
I am also starting SP game code to the DM mod code...I am starting with monsters and AI...wish me luck!
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