Engine Question and remarks

Get help with installing and running the Cafu Engine here. This forum is also for general questions and discussion of all aspects regarding the Cafu Engine.
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nexus1212
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Joined: 2008-11-10, 16:51

Engine Question and remarks

Post by nexus1212 » 2008-11-12, 19:27

Dear Carsten,

i have some question about ca3d :)

---
Is Lua scripting Inline (Editor) useable ?
is a API Doku available?
Do you have testing your Network Framework eg. for 32 or 50 players ?
Its the Network Framework writing by your self?
Free dedicated Server available for Gamers?
Can i change Shading Textur eg. Normal Map,Deatil Map, Spec Map in a Visual Editor?
Work the LOD System automatically and/or manuel?
BSP / PVS Culling system.... can i switch the compiling system? ( yes i can i have see it ;) )
Is Bullet Physic fully implementet?
same with Ragdoll ?
Is fogground and distance fog available?
Is ca3d eg. jpg Textur automatically convert in dds format?
Generate the Engine automatically Mipmap Texture?
Is HDR planing?
Use the Engine multithreading?
Use the Bullet Engine multithreading?
---
Okay take a Breath ;)


I think your Engine is very quick but some things are not good.

Your Engine Editor looks like 3d Gamestudio and (sorry for that) i hate the 3dgs WED Editor.
The World Editor GUI looks not invitingly.
The Colors looks little depressed.
The Textur assignment in World Editor looks very similar the 3d Gamestudio :(
The Material Editor from Neoaxis is a good solution for the resourcen.

Your Techdemo is outdated. Quality of Textur and light effects most bad. Caves scenen are very outdated.
I know there function the BSP perfect :)

My opinion is... i watch the facts of the Engine and grade it for my self.

I hope my question and remarks was lovely writing? ;)
Ich danke dir für deine Zeit das zu beantworten Carsten:)

EDIT:
Sorry for my bad english
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Carsten
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Carsten » 2008-11-13, 00:54

Dear Frank,
welcome to the Ca3D-Engine forums, :welcome1:
and thanks for your feedback! :cheesy:

Let's go:
nexus1212 wrote:Is Lua scripting Inline (Editor) useable ?
Currently CaWE doesn't come with a built-in script editor. We've postponed that, because people usually tend to use their favourite programming editor for scripting, and switching between CaWE and the script editor with Alt+TAB is very convenient.

In the Ca3D-Engine itself, you can change the running map or GUI scripts "inline" via the console. For example, you can activate a trigger via the console.
is a API Doku available?
We've prepared the Ca3D-Engine Libraries API documentation over the last few weeks, and will upload it soon - please remind me in about a week if it still isn't online then! ;)
Do you have testing your Network Framework eg. for 32 or 50 players ?
Sorry, not yet, but we've had pretty thorough battles with fewer players.
Its the Network Framework writing by your self?
Yes, all. It's based on Berkely sockets and thus available on all platforms. From the game programmers perspective, we're planning to implement several important enhancements soon, so that you're no longer forced to use the EntityStateT struct with your entities.
Free dedicated Server available for Gamers?
We don't operate a public game server, but it's easy to create one with the binaries in the 8.09 release.
Can i change Shading Textur eg. Normal Map,Deatil Map, Spec Map in a Visual Editor?
Not yet. Up to version 8.09, you will have to do edit materials by editing their definition scripts in a text editor (it's not difficult though). However, we're working on enhancing the Material Browser component of CaWE. It will have 3D materials preview and a GUI for changing material properties.
Work the LOD System automatically and/or manuel?
What kind of LOD do you mean?
Terrain LOD and most other stuff is fully automatic. LOD for models is currently manually (you have to define at which viewer distance which LOD-level of the model is shown).
BSP / PVS Culling system.... can i switch the compiling system? ( yes i can i have see it ;) )
Sorry, I don't quite get the question... But the BSP and PVS compilers are among the core elements of the Ca3D-Engine, you cannot (easily) replace them. Of course you can alter the code of the CaBSP and CaPVS programs, though.
Is Bullet Physic fully implementet?
With the next release, yes, we will provide at least all the infrastructure and as many samples as possible. Also see the news post at http://www.ca3d-engine.de/forum/viewtop ... f=14&t=513 for some information.
same with Ragdoll ?
We've no fixed plans for that yet. An important consideration wrt. physics effect is whether they are run on the server (which requires synchronization over the network to all clients, e.g. with falling crates), or whether they're client-only (e.g. small pieces of flying debris). Ragdolls are probably in the latter category, and we hope to add a sample of those, too.
Is fogground and distance fog available?
Not yet, but should be easy to add.
Is ca3d eg. jpg Textur automatically convert in dds format?
The Ca3D-Engine load all texture image formats automatically, and sends them to the graphics card in the proper format (including automatic compression, if set so by the user).
Generate the Engine automatically Mipmap Texture?
Yes.
Is HDR planing?
Yes.
Use the Engine multithreading?
Currently not, but with the introduction of physics systems, we're considering to spread the physics over multiple threads.
Use the Bullet Engine multithreading?
Yes, optionally.
---
Okay take a Breath ;)

I think your Engine is very quick but some things are not good.

Your Engine Editor looks like 3d Gamestudio and (sorry for that) i hate the 3dgs WED Editor.
Hm, I don't know GameStudio, do you have an reference screenshots etc.?
The World Editor GUI looks not invitingly.
Can you please describe what exactly you don't like - we'd love to fix it! :up:
Would you agree that a editor GUI like this
Image (click image to enlarge)
is better? I'm asking because we're going to make the Map/World Editor similar as well. :cheesy:
The Colors looks little depressed.
Which colors? Where? Why?
The Textur assignment in World Editor looks very similar the 3d Gamestudio :(
Hmm, I'd really love to see it (but we're enhancing the Material Browser as described above anyway).
The Material Editor from Neoaxis is a good solution for the resourcen.
Screenshots of this one would be even more interesting - as said above, we'd like to enhance whatever we can.
Your Techdemo is outdated. Quality of Textur and light effects most bad. Caves scenen are very outdated.
I know there function the BSP perfect :)
I don't quite get the last statement about BSP, but can you please be more specific about what you don't like in the TechDemo? I agree that the TechDemo needs enhancements (of course!), but what exactly doesn't look good in your eyes? Again, references that demonstrate how we can do it better would much be welcome.
My opinion is... i watch the facts of the Engine and grade it for my self.

I hope my question and remarks was lovely writing? ;)
Ich danke dir für deine Zeit das zu beantworten Carsten:)
You're welcome - gern geschehen! :wohow:
EDIT:
Sorry for my bad english
Don't worry, as long as we get your meaning, it's fine. :up:
Best regards,
Carsten
nexus1212
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by nexus1212 » 2008-11-13, 10:31

Thx Carsten for you detailed answer.

Here a screenshot of 3d gamestudio:
http://www.conitec.net/german/gstudio/3dgs2_7.htm
You really dont know 3d gamestudio???
But you know this page: http://www.devmaster.net/engines/

Here Screenshots from Neoaxis Material Editor:
look from "NeoAxis Engine Toolset"
http://www.neoaxisgroup.com/neoaxis/screenshots

Colors:
I mean if a first start ca3d are the colors dark. The grid is black.
It looks very similar the old WED Editor (World Editor) from 3dgamestudio and i mean this concept of editor is very outdated and bad to use.
Because... please download http://www.neoaxisgroup.com/neoaxis/downloads
And you will see what i mean.
Or try http://www.visual3d.net/webmedia/galler ... index.html
Visual3d is in Beta you can try it for free. Neoaxis Engine too.

Your GUI Editor exemplary but i mean the graphics user interface of your Map Editor.
I think if your costumers start at first Time your Map Editor and compare it with eg. the Visual3d Editor then will drops ca3d away.
Only because of the looking and Editor Concepts.
Sample:
http://www.visual3d.net/webmedia/shots/ ... oolset.jpg

You see in the middle and only in the middel the WYSIWYG Map Editor. You can select the objects there,move, rotate, or move and rotate the World.
On the right side you see the property Tab for the selected Object.
Over the middle Map Editor you can see
Scene Editor, Earth Buildner,Material Editor,Scripting, Model Editor.

I hope you like Constructive criticism
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Stephen
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Stephen » 2008-11-13, 14:20

Carsten wrote:
Do you have testing your Network Framework eg. for 32 or 50 players ?
Sorry, not yet, but we've had pretty thorough battles with fewer players.
Maybe we should all try to have a big network game with everyone from the forum sometime to try it out! The weapons in the deathmatch demo could use some improvement first though!

As for the editor, maybe you should take a look at Unity's editor for some design ideas - it looks pretty good, although I haven't used it.
Last edited by Stephen on 2008-11-13, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
nexus1212
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by nexus1212 » 2008-11-13, 14:24

Of cause!
Even good Rapid Editor by Unity3D.
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Carsten
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Carsten » 2008-11-13, 17:04

Hi Nexus,

ok, I see, thanks for all the screenshots!
The next version of CaWE will be much better with regards to the user interface, the map editor will then look as modern as the GUI editor, and we will make sure to adjust the colors and view settings as well (e.g. have a large 3D view in the center).

However, for completeness I would like to add that we feel that the implementation and the results are still more important than good looks: Eventually, game developers want to make the gamers happy and provide them with a good game.
Of course it is also important to have good tools for the developers, but we believe that a good tools is not necessarily the same as an attractive tool. As a result, we will both continue to enhance the "attractive look" of CaWE, and the underlying feature and technology as well. :up:
nexus1212 wrote:I hope you like Constructive criticism
Of course I do, and I'm very grateful for it! :-D
Feedback like yours helps us to learn the weak spots in CaWE and the Ca3D-Engine that we cannot see ourselves - because as we work every day with it, we sometimes cannot see things with the same eyes as you do.
Thus we're happy about each feedback that we get, because it helps us to make the Ca3D-Engine (and its tools) better! :wohow:
Best regards,
Carsten
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Carsten
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Carsten » 2008-11-13, 17:09

Stephen wrote:Maybe we should all try to have a big network game with everyone from the forum sometime to try it out! The weapons in the deathmatch demo could use some improvement first though!
Wow, I'd LOVE to do that!! :wohow: Will set up a server at the next opportunity! :cheesy:
I can also tell you that playing Ca3DE DeathMatch is a lot of fun, despite the weapons being as they currently are. ;)
As for the editor, maybe you should take a look at Unity's editor for some design ideas - it looks pretty good, although I haven't used it.
Yes, thanks, this one looks great as well. Unfortunately the screenshots don't show how a detailed map is made, but the real-time previews certainly look impressive.
Best regards,
Carsten
nexus1212
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by nexus1212 » 2008-11-13, 18:44

Carsten wrote:Hi Nexus,

ok, I see, thanks for all the screenshots!
The next version of CaWE will be much better with regards to the user interface, the map editor will then look as modern as the GUI editor, and we will make sure to adjust the colors and view settings as well (e.g. have a large 3D view in the center).

However, for completeness I would like to add that we feel that the implementation and the results are still more important than good looks: Eventually, game developers want to make the gamers happy and provide them with a good game.
Of course it is also important to have good tools for the developers, but we believe that a good tools is not necessarily the same as an attractive tool. As a result, we will both continue to enhance the "attractive look" of CaWE, and the underlying feature and technology as well. :up:
nexus1212 wrote:I hope you like Constructive criticism
Of course I do, and I'm very grateful for it! :-D
Feedback like yours helps us to learn the weak spots in CaWE and the Ca3D-Engine that we cannot see ourselves - because as we work every day with it, we sometimes cannot see things with the same eyes as you do.
Thus we're happy about each feedback that we get, because it helps us to make the Ca3D-Engine (and its tools) better! :wohow:
Good to read Carsten!!!
Kaboose
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Kaboose » 2010-02-16, 13:49

Hi,

This topic answered allot of my questions about Cafu (Ca3D) and I will start to build my game on this, most important for me was that the multiplayer capability to work, I have also tried Delta3D but whit no luck. A bit offtopic I might ask for help about easy stuff since I'm new to C++ ;)
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Carsten
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Carsten » 2010-02-17, 00:46

Hi Kaboose,
welcome to the Cafu forums! :welcome:
Kaboose wrote:A bit offtopic I might ask for help about easy stuff since I'm new to C++ ;)
You're very welcome to ask at any time, just for questions regarding C++, please use the Coding and Scripting forum. :up:
Best regards,
Carsten
gandsnut
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by gandsnut » 2010-04-11, 09:00

Do you know of any online evaluations/comparisons where Cafu was one of the packages assessed; at what URL?

What do you recommend in the way of server storage/CPU/net bandwidth for:
0-100 users, 100-250 users, 250-500 users?

Do most game operators opt for special domain hosting, or will "typical" hosting be sufficient?

Much appreciated,
GandSnut
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Carsten
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Re: Engine Question and remarks

Post by Carsten » 2010-04-12, 11:01

Hi gandsnut,
welcome to the Cafu forums! :welcome:

Cafu can currently handle up to 32 players on a normal, modest server hardware. The server requirements are in fact quite low according to the nature of the server.

We have not yet tested with any number of players exceeding that (all in the same map, that is), but we'd be happy to assist if you plan such tests.
Best regards,
Carsten
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